Nada Surf visited Zurich with their current record «Moon Mirror». It was the band's fourth time playing at Dynamo since 2016. Before the show, singer Matthew Caws, took some time to talk about the record, the way of living as a nice person and on how his ADHD diagnosis helped him.
Indiespect: Your current record is called «Moon Mirror». You talked about your fascination for moonlight and the moon itself, because it’s an object that everyone in the world is able to see. When I look up I always see Orion. Do you also have something that you instantly focus on when you look at the night sky?
Matthew Caws: Well, funnily enough, Orion's belt is something I always see, because my mother worked a lot with a French poet called René Char. He's the reason why we lived in the south of France for all of our summers, so that she could be near him, working. His poetry is very dense and I don't know it, but apparently he talks about Orion's Belt in his poems. My mom always pointed it out to me. So now I always see his belt. I also do see the the Big Dipper that makes me think of this group that I love. This American group from Boston in the 80s called Big Dipper. They are not well known at all, but are unbelievably good and absolutely worth your time. They have a record called Craps, that's incredible. So those two. I don't keep in mind the thing about Starlight that it's really coming from the past and that also some of those stars don't exist anymore. That's amazing if you think of it.
Orion's belt is something I always see, because my mother worked a lot with a French poet called René Char
Indiespect: Orion's Belt is even visible on the cover artwork for your record «Lucky».
Matthew: That's possible! I hadn't thought of that. I should look more closely.
Matthew Caws with his band Nada Surf on stage in Zurich.
Indiespect: You will attend a charity event in New York that features the music of «How I Met Your Mother» in January. May you tell me something about this event?
Matthew: We'll play the songs that were on the show. I think it's Inside Of Love, Beautiful Beat and one other. They've had this benefit concert every year and they've asked me to do it before but I haven't had the time. Now I'm trying to get back to New York whenever I can, to see my mother, as she's getting older. This is a great reason to go. There's a house band, made up of some cast members or friends of the creator. In the middle they're going to do a concert of all songs from the show. I'm going to get up and sing the three Nada Surf songs with them, which is exciting. And I'll get to meet the cast members.
Chris Walla from Death Cab For Cutie was producing that record, knowing that we needed some time anyway, so he decided to really dig into it.
Indiespect: Many of your songs were featured on TV. Did you ever play «If You Leave» live?
Matthew: We don't even know how to play it. We've never played it, actually. It's a studio creation. That's not meant to downplay it. I think studio creations are valuable. We were making The Wait Is A Gift and I was a little behind. Life was complicated. I hadn't finished enough songs, so we were kind of struggling. Then this request came up. Chris Walla from Death Cab For Cutie was producing that record, knowing that we needed some time, so he decided to really dig into it. That's why it's such a special, sonic creation. That's really Chris. He put that together and guided us through it. It's got a lot of key changes and it's hard to sing.
Indiespect: But it's really a nice song. I grew into listening to indie music because of The OC and its soundtrack when it first aired.
Matthew: Oh well, that's great. I try to hear everything that people say. Sometimes we just don't get to follow through on things. A lot of people ask us about Where Is My Mind?. 20 years after being asked about, we finally started playing it live. I know a lot of people like If You Leave and we should think about it.
«If You Leave» was an essential part of a dramatic scene in the first season of hit series «The OC».
Indiespect: Your lead single «In Front Of Me Now» is very relatable for many people. In interviews you told that you were diagnosed with ADHD some time ago. That surely influenced the lyrics of this song. But also in general it's hard to keep your focus in a world where so many things are going on at the same time. Can you give an advise on that?
Matthew: Just understanding the condition really helps. And also realizing how many people are neurodivergent. It seems to be in the news so much, people are talking about it often, commenting about it or blogging about it. Ten years ago, I feel like everybody was talking about falling asleep and how hard it is. Now everybody's talking about realizing that they have ADHD and I think in a really good way. The idea of being autistic is more normalized, which is great.
I used to be dreaming when I was drivingI used to be leaving when I was arrivingI used to be calling when I was walkingI used to be thinking when I was talking
All of these things are good. I mean, the understanding that more people are trans than we knew is also a great thing. The sad thing that I wish the general public would understand is that all this has always been there, it's just been hidden. And the hiding is painful and the hiding is dangerous. Anything, any human condition that can be more accepted, is only good. The idea that we're supposed to be or sort of cookie cutter and normal is such an illusion. It's just not true. All of us are wildly complicated and wildly different. That's reality. We have this song Matilda that I'll play later. And in it I say, if it's in the Bible, you know, it's old, which I think is an important point. If we if we have a word for it, it's not new.
Empathy is good, lack of empathy is bad: Matthew Caws lives by this standards.
Indiespect: There are many thoughts going through your mind. Do you also write a diary?
Matthew: No, to my great shame. My mom, who's been a writer for 40 years has been saying: you should write it down, you must write these things down. And I don't. I hear her advice, I just haven't taken it. I's very nice of you to say. I do think I have some thoughts that are worthwhile, but they're very short. I don't think I need to go into great detail, and I wouldn't be good at it. I have a bunch of friends who are really good essayists, even to the level of being public intellectuals. And it's incredible. But I don't have that. I have little things to say, and I can say them in a little conversation with you or in two two lines in a song. It's also in Something I Should Do, where I'm saying: And now the lines of non-facts waiting to get in the conversation are longer and longer. We have to hold to that hippie point harder. Empathy is good, lack of empathy is bad. What I mean by that is that I wish I had a ton of facts and that I could debate effectively about politics. I can't, because I don't have a lot of facts and I spend a lot of time daydreaming. I wish we didn't rely on emotions at all. The world should on a scientific basis. However, we're not there. All I really have to say is some variation of: try to be nicer. It's so small, it's not worth writing down, maybe.
All I really have to say is some variation of: try to be nicer.
Indiespect: I think it's always the right thing to be nice, even though people may laugh at you.
Matthew: Well, yeah. I'm okay with that. I know I'm really sincere and plain. I mean, it's obvious. It's so ridiculous that we have songs called Inside of Love, Always Love and So Much Love. It's so silly, but I'm okay with it. I'm okay with the big dumb words.
30 years of band history and Matthew Caws still finds new variations of teaching people on how to be nicer.
Indiespect: It's maybe also a reason for you having this loyal fan base that always attends your shows. It's a feeling that you spark in them. Maybe it attracts a certain kind of people.
Matthew: Oh that's nice and I think it does.
We had early shows with a lot of jocks and cheerleaders. It was like whoever had seen that video was like:
Oh, cool, man – let's go to the fucking show.
Indiespect: I've never experienced a Nada Surf show where the mood was bad. Do you remember one?
Matthew: No, definitely not. But on our first big tour, the vibe was different. That was because Popular was on TV. I'm not criticizing sports people at all, but we had early shows with a lot of jocks and cheerleaders. It was like whoever had seen that video was like: Oh, cool, man – let's go to the fucking show. For a few a couple of months. Then once in a while somebody who was a bit more into Freaks and Geeks would be like: So, that song. Are you making fun of them? I was like: I don't mean to, but yeah, you're right.
Matthew Caws in the middle of two mirror balls in Zurich.
Indiespect: Did you also have a phase in your life where you were sick of being that nice. Where maybe people didn't treat you with enough respect?
Matthew: Not really. I mean, I get a little impatient sometimes. Once in a while, I snap a little, in a store or something. But it's okay. There's hard power and soft power, and I'm comfortable with the idea that being a quiet-ish, nice and friendly person works out. You get some respect, just different. And that's fine. It's the only kind I want anyway. I don't need the other kind.
I'm comfortable with the idea that being a quiet-ish, nice and friendly person works out
Indiespect: You're on tour for quite a while now.
Matthew: It's been a busy fall. We only have three more shows, including tonight, and then we're off for Christmas. But we did a long American tour, long European tour, and before the American tour I was on a promo tour by myself for a couple of weeks playing in record stores, so it's been really busy. And it's fine. I love doing it. It's just hard on my wife and on my kid. This is unusual. It's because it's been four years since we put out a record, and we had to give it a good shot.
Indiespect: Your son is now seven, right? They're not traveling with you because he has to go to school?
Matthew: He has to go to school. Also we're not quite successful enough for that. To travel with the family, you need two tour busses. You have the loud bus where people stay up. You know, it's hard to wind down after a show and it's hard for me too. Sometimes it takes us 2 or 3 hours, just chatting or whatever to relax. But on, on a family bus, you'd have to get right down at 7:30 or 8 o'clock. Because at home I go to bed really early. I love to be in my bedroom by nine, but I'm not asleep until eleven because I like to read.